What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

This little thing from Colt.

http://www.colt22rimfire.com/index.php?page=colt-m4-ops

I'm consider taking this versus a 9mm configured M4.

Unfortunately, I live in CA, so if I take the 9mm or some regular sized rifle round, my m4 will have a fixed magazine and I'll have to load one round at a time.

If I take the .22, I can get a detachtable, and have more options I should be inclined.

I know the .22 is not a stopping round at all, but if I put 6 in the torso every time, will that more or less compensate for their small size?

Thanks for the input, guys.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

page wasnt loading for me (bad connection) but classic arms has ak .22s for about 350.

You could alwas go with a rugar 10/22 and a 30 round or 50 round aftermarket mag, itll do just what this m4 colt will do.

Marlin also has a rebate going on model 795's and if you go to a dicks or gander mountain you can get the sub $130 bucks.

just some ideas.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Thanks man, appreciate the input.

I've been saving for a while for this, and it will be a big purchase for me. I don't mind shelling out 600 for the Colt M4, because NO OTHER .22LR even comes close to its coolness. No, I won't be taking on the Mexican drug runners with this if I seem them (although taking their rifles is a tempting thought), but I do want something more exciting than a ruger.

Anybody here have experience with the quality of this rifle? Colt's got its name on it, I reckon it should be at least passable?

And my minimum-6-round-in-the-torso idea? What do you guys think about that as a compensation for being in CA for now? Or should I just get a regular rifle round but live with those 10 rounds? I just don't like the idea of having a big rifle and being pretty much out of the fight after 10 shots.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

All the disadvantages of a California-prohibited "assault rifle," with none of the benefits.

You will be hassled if you take that out to shoot it within California. It looks great, yes, and that also means "law enforcement" will want to verify what it really is.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Yeah Im with SoJ on that opinion as well.

Dont buy guns just for the cool factor, though I know its tempting ;)

People regularly survive 6 .40 cal shots to the chest, and some die with 1 .22lr shot to the chest. I personaly would NOT bring a .22 into a serious gun fight if I had the choice of something else. if its all I had, I would fight my heart out with it for sure, and it is capable of killing some one, certainly.

Id be practicing face/head shots over going for toros shots though if you stick with the .22.

I know you're looking for cool-ness, but check out an SKS. Its a 10 shot rifle, that uses the 7.62x39 russian round (same as the AK). With practice, one can reload form the 10 round stripper clips pretty fast. I loved mine to death, it was a fine little rifle, if a bit out dated. THeres also 5 million add ons for it if you want to go tacticool, and detatchable 20 and 30 round mags if you ever decide to "stash" some for SHTF.

You can also go with a demilled single stack AK that accepts 10 and 5 round single stack mags. If SHTF you can take a dremel tool and open it up for standard 30 round mags. This takes about 2 minutes and literaly little know how or techincal ability.

.22's are for practice and pest control. If you thinking of serious self defense, I think Id rather have to reload every 10 rounds than worry about sextuple taps in just the right spot. This is just my personal opinion and I know later on some one with far more firearms experience will come in and tell you far more than I am able.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Thanks Jefferson, but what do you think about its actual functional merits (or lack of)?

I'm more concerned about the .22 stopping the bad guy in the middle of a confrontation. What's your take on my 6-round-in-the-torso policy? Think 6 .22 in the guts will drop a man immediately?

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Thanks guys.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

If youre concerned about defense, aren't shotguns still legal in CA?

In a typical home defense scenario, your much more likely to put 6 or more pellets into a perp with 1 blast of a 12ga than you are with 6 shots of a .22.

Another point to be aware of -- There are 'CA legal' modifications to a standard AR that require a 'tool' to change the mag. For the purposes of the law, this can be anything. I know there are a couple setups that allow for teh quick changing of a mag using nothing more than a bullet tip as the 'tool.' This satisfies the letter of the law and is CA legal, but lets you retain the capability of swapping out mags.

Of course, you are still stuck with 10 rnd mags.. Can't help you there.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Hey metal, good idea there with the shotty. I didnt even think of that as my mind went right to rifles from his op. But if this is indeed for home defense, a shotty would fit your needs quite well. 9 00 pellets (.33 cal) will be far more devestating than 6 .22lr's

If you are thinking more of SHTF, which is what I got from your post, a shotty can still server your purposes very well. But you seem like you really want a rifle, so I stick with my previous suggestions there.

Otherwise, go get a lihglty used mossberg 500 and dont look back ;)

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Got the shoty covered already with an 870.

Thanks for the input, guys.

I'm weighing my options, but the M4 looks awfully tempting.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

thats good too.

But you have to think of it this way. The average SD encouter is about less than 7 feet in total distance, last less than 3 seconds, with a total of 3 rounds or less fired. This is an in your home, in your car, etc type of situation.

If you are thinking of more...prolonged gun fire, unless you are one cool cucumber and a total bad ass with LOTS of dynamic range time, odds are you arent going to getting perfect sight pictures, with perfect 100% success ration hits.

Even with say a 30 round .22 magazine, if you get 6 shots into ever center of mass target presented, that means you can still only take on 5 targets, give or take. Odds are you wont be face 5 targets. Odds are even 6 rounds will NOT instantly disable the attacker unless you splice that madula oblongata up pretty good (head shots, through the nose).

Ive heard of many people in CA getting pretty crafty with their mag release issues and while it might take a little bit longer than a traditional mag release, I wouldnt discount it and go for a higher capacity just yet. like I said before, even an SKS with 10 round stripper clips can be manipulated in fairly quick amount of time. You should be behind cover when you reload anyone, forget all that fancy hollywood, middle of the fire fight tactical reload BS.

If you got real rounds incoming and your in a situation where you are fighting with your rifle, your natural instinc is gonna be duck for cover and blast some rounds off. Id rather be limited to 10 rounds that I know pack some punch, than 30 rounds that might do it if i hit them enough times. A 7.62 is good for that, as is a 5.56.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

The functional merits of any Colt product? Excellent.

The effectiveness of a .22LR for any sort of defense? Marginal at best. I'd feel pretty good about a full-auto .22 LR with at least a 100 round drum, but anything less than that, especially semi-auto, forget it, unless nothing else is available.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Yes, they are. As long as they're not an "assault" shotgun. :bear_rolleyes: 870s and 500s (and many others) are still great. Big 5 has both on sale regularly.


Agreed, for the typical self-defense against garden-variety thug scenario, nothing beats a 12. NOTHING. The fu*ker is going down.


The emasculated "California AR" has some attractiveness, but it's of only marginal practical use unless "TSHTF" and "laws" no longer matter - then "someone" could remove the faggy "bullet button" or faggy "Monsterman Grip" and make it a real rifle. (I don't mean to imply anyone that is willing to use a BB or MM grip is faggy - just that the idiotic parts required by faggy California "law" are faggy)


Not exactly.

Many Californians invested in normal capacity (i.e., 20 or 30 round) magazines before they became "illegal." You can both possess and use "lawfully owned" so-called "large capacity" magazines in California. Perhaps the OP forgot about that stash of mags he bought years ago?

Something to look at is the Kel-Tec SU-16, which accepts any STANAG AR/M-16 magazine. Many don't like the SU-16's plastics, but most who actually shoot like it a lot. It's not a "battle rifle," but then, neither is the AR-15. It will do what it's supposed to do, and that's a great deal for the ordinary citizen who doesn't think he's Rambo.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

I overlooked this part earlier. You really don't think 6 rounds of .22 in the gut or chest, even assuming none of them touched the spine or heart, will make a man bend down immediately?

I haven't been shot yet, but can't imagine 6 rounds going through or lodged in my torso won't put a stop to me, even if they're small rounds like a .22.

I don't know, somebody with experience taking bullets in the torso here? Or just limbs?

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Daveman:

I have no personal experience, but the Colt M4 Ops (actually made by Umarex) does not have the best reputation on AR15.com:

"Comparison? S&W 15/22, Colt 22, Ruger SR22"

You may want to consider the S&W 15/22, if that is legal where you are.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Honestly, no. Will it hurt...probably...probably hurt like a mother, will it instantly disable them? More than likley not. Heck, I am not even 100% confidant in my .45 JHP's to be a one shot stopper, which is why i practice multi taps (double, triple, etc). Despite what you may hear in the new, the majority of hand gun victims live. MOST hand gun rounds are under powered for human sized targets. Thats why they are back ups.

Check out the ".45" thread that was started a few days ago. Ruprick and some other very experienced shooters laid it out pretty good with the deer hunting analogy.

Also add the fact that most home invasions are averaging multiple assaulters now. Its no longer just one guy busting in for the radio. Its 3, 4, 5+ man teams that are working together, usualy armed. There is also a rampant rise in soft body armor use among home invaders as they know home owners are arming up and body armor is much cheaper and easier to get than it used to be, relativley speaking.

Also, consider the fact that there are some pretty crazy drugs on the market, including meth and PCP which literaly can make a person go into a psychotic rage, impervious to pain and/or fear. This is where having the ability for a powerfull stopping round is important. Many cops run into these types and dump full mags of .40 cal JHPs into the perps and they STILL dont go and continue on the attack until they quite literaly bleed out and die.

Can a .22 stop all the people in those scenarios? Yes, but is it likley or even probable....no.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Personally, I wouldn't shell out that much for a .22 given what you have said you want to use it for. It does have a certain coolness to it, but you could get that for less with a tricked out 10/22 or even the M&P version. It's not going to have the stopping power you need unless used extremely close range w/ multiple shots and in that case there are better options. A shotgun with a slug (or buckshot) will do more damage to someone in its effective range (approx 50 yards +/-) than the .22. Past 50 yards, you could do a lot better than the .22 for protection. At a distance past 50 yards, you can get something that will stop someone with one shot so you would be reloading your CA compliant magazine less often. You should spend less and buy a Ruger 10/22 if you want a .22 LR.

Do they allow handgun caliber carbines in CA? How about a Marlin or similar lever action?

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Looks like fun to me!~:ok: Here is another option. I just got one of these and it is fun as hell and cheap to shoot. I mow down the bowling pins on the range in record time with both eyes open.
It's been quite a few years since I had a good 22 rifle, and this one is a blast!

Attachment 89905

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

I have a ruger 10/22 great gun, also have a colt target pistol in .22, I am partial to the ruger

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

I read about this case last week. The guy only got shot 3 times by a .22, but one was in the heart, and he still got away, called 911, and survived.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

I'm starting to think .22s are completely useless for any self-defense or pain compliance purposes now.

I don't know, seems there are just no power/capacity combos in CA.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

I woulden't want to get shot with a 22, mainly because however many rounds in the mag is right about how many times you are going to get hit!

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Shotgun with #4-buck for a bit of distance, and low-base brass #8 shot for inside the house. From across the room #8 shot will do the same job on a person as #00 buck, but low-base #8 won't go through the wall into the kid's room...or through an ouside where a bullet might hit somone.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Have you heard of 'Feather Arms'?

http://www.guns-rifles-firearms.com/index.html

22 LR
9mm
357 Sig
40 S&W
45 ACP
10mm
460 Rowland

NO, not out of ONE platform. But they make ALL those calibers. Probably for around the same money you are thinking of spending (22 is a little cheaper). And it will conceal a lot easier than the AR you are looking at.

Just a thought.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

I got in in on the Marlin deal from Cabela's last fall. With rebate I got it for $99. Problem is damn thing won't cycle reliably (reliably is being nice). 1 or 2 shots and then click. Was told that bulk 22LR have bad QA QC and the charges loaded vary so much that they often don't provide the power to cycle the bolt. But even with CCI Stingers it acts up, just not as bad. Anyhow sending it back to Marlin.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Yeah, send it back for sure before they close up shop. Ive heard that quality control has been slipping as of late and that some of the issues on cycle can be fixed by a simple light sanding of certain parts, just enough to free up any burr's etc. I still got one, but havent put any full power rounds trhough it yet (just some CB's).

If mine displeases me, I might shop around for 20 year old model 60.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Thats the idea behind gun control my friend.

As far as the pain compliance. If they are threatening enough that you have to shoot them, you want to be able to end them. It sounds mean or whatever, but thats just the case.

Go into court and say you didnt want to kill them you just wanted to hurt them, and a good prosecuter could and may turn that around on you and make you look like some sick saddist trying to torture people, especialy in commifornia.

Get a .22 for practice, for fun, for cheap ammo, for small game hunting. There is ALWAYS a good reasont own a .22. Main-line self defense just isnt one of em.

I still say this is your best bet: An sks, cost around $300

http://surv1vor.tripod.com/SKSsniper.jpg

and if you want to go tacticool, you can do this to it:

http://www.profilon.us/advtech/SKS/SKS0200-LG.jpg

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Do you guys know if the Colt/Umarex .22 M4 I referred to in the 1st post uses the same lower as an AR15 or rifle round M4?

If it does share the same parts, I may just get an AR15, buy the .22 upper and practice with the .22 for affordability, and go with the 5.56 for the baddies.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

Well I got to say, if I'm sticking with the .22, that Sig 522 does look finer than the M4 from Colt.

It sure strips easy.

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

If you have to have an AR in 22 I would say the S&W has got my vote for reliability at this time.

However I would buy a Ruger 10/22 and a Nordic chassis. This will allow you to build a duplicate of your centerfire as far as butt stock, fore end, and pistol grip are concerned. The Ruger's reliability is tops and accuracy is excellent, cheap mags are a plus as well. And, unlike the Archangel, it is made of billet aluminum.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z...ordicstock.jpg

Re: What do you guys think about this for a .22LR rifle?
 

If you had "coolness" in one hand and a medium sized morsel of bovine excrement in the other hand, which would be the heaviest?

I would make my selection based on function.